>> predictions and jonas, you're up. >> the math of double digit slide. apple this week i think is the end of the collapse of apple, and the 25% increase. >> brenda: toby has to say. >> a little more. >> brenda: gary b. >> rim, 40% plus in a year? john, you like blackberry maker. >> i like gary, i don't think that he's a dinosaur, but i think that rim. >> brenda: your prediction, john. >> sea drill, and.

>> brenda: jonas bull or bear? >> bear. >> brenda: toby. >> the lawmakers do the budget, no pay. forget this, how about a budget, use quick books, quicken up 25% the end. year. >> brenda: gary b, what do you think about that. >> love the product not the stock, bear. on business is going to, be a great show! stay tuned. >> ready, set, punt. because if there's anything lawmakers know about is kicking and running. hello, everyone, i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto. forget about hail mary, it's more like what the hell, extending the debt limit for nearly four months and democratic expected to dot same next week, why congress will never make the tough decisions dealing with debt. no one wants to risk their jobs to do it. unless you're willing to

gambling and do the right thing. you'll do the safe thing, that gets you by, but only buys you a pass. to ben stein, gerri willis, charlie gasperino. ben to you on this. >> it's a scary situation, everybody in congress is running scared. scared of grover norquist and the no new taxes pledge and the black caucus, threats against anyone who cuts any hint of services and entitlements. scared of the aarp, ending anything having to do with retirement or medicare. >> and in the end of the day we'll be in default and like the story, f. scott fitzgerald-- or hemingway, went broke during the crash and he asked how it happened and he said gradually and then all at once, that's what will happen to us. >> one thing at that doesn't stop, the meter, the debt meter, mountain of debt. >> on and on. the average family in this

country $52,000 your share of the federal debt and let me tell you, even if the left and right agree where to cut and give you an example here, there is an example, the christopher columbus foundation, $450,000 line item in the budget and congress tried to kill it it seven times, seven times this program continues to this date. and the president tried to kill this program. it still goes on, and these guys can't save money for love or money. >> and charlie, were you standing up for the christopher columbus thing? or were you the one in the way of that? >> that's me, yeah. >> and really, doesn't it get down to a gut check? this is what we're discussing. >> the american people bear responsibility for this. if you're going to elect by the government and put republicans in the house and going to let one of the most liberal presidents since fdr and keep harry reid running the senate and this is what you're going to get and you know, it's hard to feel sorry for the american people on this issue when you put them back into the presidency

barack obama, who ignored, ignored his own deficit panel on recommendations. on the other thing, as a tactical matter, the republicans punting, i think it's a smart thing. you know, i think if they're going to really go to battle on this thing, they've got to get their acts together and have a game plan. because i'm telling you-- >> get their ax-- >> and if we default, this country is going to go through some major, major issues, and government's going to stop working and that's going to affect a lot of people. and we have not been through, when two-thirds of the federal government has shut down. >> adam, adam, this is it, charlie put it it in a nutshell, the scare tactic, that we're obligated to this mountain of debt until it falls on top of us, if that's the only route we have. >> we are, but let me try to put this in perspective. i absolutely agree with you, charles, politicians should be

prepared to lose their jobs on major issues. there comes a gut check time. i'm going to do what's right. now, the question is, is this that time? i don't think delays the debt ceiling issue for three months, for punting, which it absolutely is, is the worst thing in the world. here is why, the economy is growing, housing is recovering and we're going to get a little bit of relief here. as the economy grows, we hope that-- we're going to-- >> adam. >> the problem that you have adam, as the economy is growing, and we're coming slowly out of this recession, you've got more taxes coming, payroll taxes are going up and you're going to have the higher rates, ben says is great, rich need to pay more, but basically keeps the lights on for three days and by the way, then you have obamacare taxes. >> and then here is the thing, gerri, there's never the right time. listen, it's not about punting right now. this is an extension -- remember the deal before with

the debt ceiling, supposed to be the ultimate deal we'd never have to punt again. this leads to another punt, another punt and things are getting better let's not do it now. things are getting worse, let's not do it it now. and it's raining outside, let's not do it. let gerri talk for a minutes. >> according to the democrats, they're standing in the way of this. never seem to get anything done and let's remember there was a quid pro quo here, if we agree about the fiscal cliff we'll start cutting spending and it's not happening and the democrats said we're not going to keep our promises. >> you know we have economic growth, the deficit goes down, it does happen, it does happen. >> to your point. >> that's the problem not-- >> and the problem is not just the deficit, the problem is entitlement spending and the president is not going to do a single darn thing about it. >> and guy, let me go back to ben on this. ben, you've said we're all eventually going to have to amour taxes and people watching the show take it tough, it's going to be tough.

so, ultimately washington also has to make some tough decisions? >> they have to make very tough decisions and what's going to happen they're going to say, look, we're going to cut head start because they've had success and then the sob stories on tv cutting head start so they won't cut head start and they have to say we have to cut x program, y program and z-- wait a minute, i'm talking and in the end we're going to have some kind of default, either defacto or-- >> maybe yes, maybe no. it's not necessarily true. >> maybe so. >> we sent a man to the moon, we can pay for a lot of things, and these are political choices, it's not a given that we're going to default. knots a given that we're going to have to cut head start. neil likes to point out the republicans are just as bad on military spending as the democrats are on entitlement spending. these are political choices. we can make them.

>> ultimately, adam. >> the economic consequences to these political choices. >> and we don't. >> look, we can, but we don't. that's the-- >> and we have a sloppy, messy, ugly way, we make the decisions. >> quick, adam, are you saying that somehow we can find our way out of this, that we're 16 trillion and we know we're going in the 20's soon and somehow we'll just all, you know, we'll just find a soft landing out of nowhere without any tough decisions? >> no, i'm saying of course we need to behave in a prudent way. we need to make, you know, responsible decisions and we're going to get a little help from economic growth, which is what charlie was arguing. >> yeah, charlie, here is the thing though, the economic growth thing, it's small. i mean, it's feeble, talking 2%, 3% gdp. we're still spending, it's still a spending issue and still the of the government spends more than it takes in. >> the economic growth a meager 2%, and taxes kicking

in and keeping the growth at least not going up as high as it should. you know, spending becomes a bigger issue, but i'm going to tell you this, charles, you know, one of the big problems that washington has is there is no growth agenda. everybody when they sit, sitting around for the longest time and talking about raising taxes. >> there's a growth incentive, it's fwrogrowth in taxes. >> i'm saying-- i understand that, but when was the last time somebody sat down and said how do we get the economy to grow. >> and what you're saying is actually two parts of the same coin. because there is no-- there are no guts out there down in d.c. and also no growth agenda because even that would take some sort of guts. right now, we're falling into the same welfare society mentality that killed europe and i tell you what, adam, ben, we've got to go, but i've got to tell you we know the numbers and at some point we've got to turn that clock around. that at the time clock keeps going up as we speak and no way in the world it's going to be-- there's going to be a safe

landing on this, it's going to be hard or harder. you know, you remember this guy, take a look at this. >> and others to europe, since you mentioned north america, and this was in north america. and this was in north america. >> that's a big frfrfrfrfrfr [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national

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and elderly at high risk. i'm jamie colby. back to cavuto on fox. >> ask now, questions later. to deal across the atlantic.

the countries with a tax, and this to go global with the playing field. one problem, right now they don't know what the money will be used for. charlie, you can't make it up. >> i can't see the chinese and the spending in the asian market where people transact a lot of business. one interesting thing about markets. some if somebody said you have to live in l.a. or new york in the media or entertainment base, less so, but you have to do it. you do not have to trade in europe. there are exchanges all over the place where you can bypass this stuff and i tell you, remember what happened with sarbanes oxley. right after that, they posted the conditions and penalties on companies that want to list here in the united states, and be in the u.s. stock market. a lot of can't went-- >> to your point, london surpassed in new york and hong kong blew up and in the

meantime, a giant money grab up to 76 billion dollars, forget about they don't know what to do with it. >> the financial crisis they say they need money out of the banks to pay for the financial crisis and this is, they're saying, this is jail time, it's jail time for them. >> wait, i don't-- >> and did i say this is between their ears, they think we have to-- these people have to pay for what they did to our economy. >> and the penalty-- >> ben, here is the thing though, and i think the script has played out a whole lot in the last several years, you create and demonize something and then beat it up and tax it to death over and over and over again and of course, financial transactions, that's really nefarious. >> i think mr. payne is absolutely totally completely nailed this. we demonize people, and then we can't put them in the stocks, we can't whip them, we can't flog them, so, we'll tax them, but they'll never get it

through. as charlie said, why should you trade in london, paris? just trade in hong kong and you're set. >> this is one of the reasons that london and the u.k. is trying to get out of the eu. >> well, you know, you talk about london surpassing new york. maybe so. you know, the a-market in london turned out fraud in it and they're keeping your capital in the industrialized world is bad, the fact that there is-- you're losing business, you should not lose. london was important before new york and it will be again. the fact that they don't know what the use of the funds will be, not the biggest concern. (laughter) >> i don't get it it. >> adam. >> hold on, charlie. first of all, we know what the money is used for, charlie hit it on the head to continue the farce that they've created, the promises they have made.

the empires that have fallen into the ocean and they're killing themselves, adam. >> it won't work. >> adam don't you think it ultimately makes it harder for europe to be the strong, dominant place it used to be? >> i don't think this is going to keep europe. it's not at the top of the list, let's say that, they've got plenty of problems. >> all right, gerri, plenty of problems, is this the right solution? >> look, you're never going to get ahead trying to penalize the financial industry by taxing each and every trade. makes no sense, all you'll do is chase away the business fthey don't want it to be a financial center, disneyland europe, that's fine. >> let's not lose fact of the matter that they throw in the word "fair", that dove tails with president obama and a lot of democrats said the same thing. ultimately, we know this is not going to stop with the liberals running europe. ultimately if it it does go through, it will come here as well. >> maybe. you know, and can't imagine this thing--

>> and, but two or three years from now. >> well, if the house turns, becomes demographic, yeah, maybe. i just don't think it will get through because you know, one thing i think that we're more educated on than those, we do know that public pension funds, teachers, all of barack obama's, you know, his starting outfield, they have money in the stock market and this will hurt the stock market. >> i hear you, but, guys, i've got to tell you, a lot of things that rich people have done and agreed to in the last few years that i think hurts them and hurts this country. thanks a lot. see this shrimp, i bet you thought he was a goner. and some lawmakers want to bring back the spending that brought back this critter. attention, all shoppers, your credit card bill is about to get bigger with a new fee kicking in this weekend. and people fee'd up are

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>> charge it up and pay up. starting tomorrow, retailers no longer having to pay the processing fees to credit card companies. part after class action lawsuit rolling. so, who is going to cover the cost? how about you. it could add another 4% to

every purchase that you make with plastic. this is a nightmare. >> more than a nightmare. let me tell you people love their credit cards, understandable why. a way for you to build equity, to make banks know who you are, build your credit score, but at the end of the day may cost you more when you take credit cards out in stores all over. >> and stores can make up their minds? >> yes, they're doing that right now. >> whether to pass it on. >> we're calling them, we're calling them this week and we're hearing that target is not going to charge this fee and finding out more and more from each of the retailers today, but i have to tell you, this could be a problem for people out there. who want to use that credit card. they will notify you, a sign at the front of the store or on the website, if you use a debit card or-- a debit card you don't have to pay the fee, but a lot of of people are going to be-- >> i'm not a consumer finance specialist or expert, but how do you build equity by using your credit card. >> you don't build equity,

what you build-- >> don't ask charles, don't ask charles. >> charles pays for everything in cash, he doesn't have to worry about that. >> i think this is somewhat of a good thing. listen, people are in debt too much. maybe it's-- >> oh, come on, this is easy for you to say 'cause you have cash for everything. >> some people go into debt for. >> and i want people to have credit scores that are good. i want people to be able to borrow money for their kid's education, to pay for retirement. >> we borrow a lot. >> you think it's a good idea to borrow on a credit card. >> it's insane. >> no, i'm saying i want the right to use my credit card without having to pay for the fees for the industry, that the industry-- and instead of charging more to use credit cards why don't they do this: charge less to people using cash. that's all-- >> all of you guys are saying, you're saying it's a good idea that maybe people could be paying 4% extra this weekend just to use their credit card? >> i don't think it's a good idea, but i think what will

happen, competition will eat away at it. >> from your lips to god's ears. >> and everybody will say it won't happen. >> and adam, we keep hearing about the new great rules and regulations that are going to make things easier, it feels like life gets more expensive all the time particularly for people who have no choice, but to use their credit card. >> well, i'm not sure who that is, this is a merchant issue not a consumer issue. no one is forcing you to use a credit card. no one is forcing-- >> the consumer paying 4% extra, this mass nothing to do with them? >> you know what? you don't want to be able to use your credit card and get the same on saturday as sunday? this is arbitrary. >> and the whole thing is-- >> wait a minute, someone grants you a right, grants you the use of your credit apply an give it to you. >> and not being penalized and people who don't pay for the credit card and-- >> and everybody, adam, bring adam out. go ahead, adam.

>> merchants would be foolish to not eat this price, if you have to tell me i have to pay 4% more, i'm either going to use cash or now i'm angry because i love using my credit card and going someplace else. this will not affect consumers, it will affect merchants, too bad for them, they've got to pick it up. >> they'll raise the price. >> that's just it, raise the price of the goods and. >> and adam, ben is right, we do know that merchants are not going to eat this. probably raise prices in the stores to hide it, but not going to eat the 4%. >> they've already raised prices for this. prices have gone up. >> we're paying for the convenience, well worth the price. >> all right, guys. >> and money to class action lawyers-- >> thank you, gerri for bringing that story to the show and thanks charlie and

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